June 5, 2019
Mexico City, Mexico
Changing the world
1 of 4
*To hear more about Jesus listen to the playlist above
Lizzy: How old were you when you came to the US?
Jesus: Eight years old.
Lizzy: Where did you grow up in Mexico?
Jesus: Here, in the city.
Lizzy: In Mexico City?
Lizzy: Do you have a favorite memory from your childhood, or even a worst memory from your childhood in Mexico?
Jesus: Playing in the arcades. I was a little kid, so I don't really have that much memories.
Lizzy: Playing in the arcades?
Jesus: Yeah. [Chuckles].
Lizzy: Why did you end up leaving Mexico?
Jesus: I didn't even know. It was just my mom told me to pack my things up and I was like, "Alright." So, I just packed all my toys—I was a little kid. Then we headed for the airport. That took us to TJ. Then from there, they crossed us over.
Lizzy: Did you drive across the border or walk across?
Jesus: Well, they separated me and my mom. When we got to TJ, they were like, "Your mom's going to go another place, and you're going to come with the guy that I was going to cross with, whatever.” So, I went with him in his truck and we just crossed like nothing, no border.
Lizzy: What did you think about it at the time? I know you were young, but do you remember—
Jesus: I wasn't really scared. But everything was different, I didn't know what the hell was going on. But I wasn't scared, I was just curious. I'm like, “What's going on? What the hell are we doing?”
Lizzy: Do you remember, what did you think about the U.S.? Do you have a memory of your first time seeing it or that first day?
Jesus: I remember when we barely came through the border, we stopped at a gas station, and the guy bought me a drink and a Snickers. It was like a SoBe, and I remember that drink really a lot because after that I would always drink it. It's one of my favorites. [Chuckles].
Lizzy: So, it's been your favorite since day one?
Jesus: Yeah. I remember that, and then I remember going on the highway, and just seeing everything and everything looked super nice and stuff. [Chuckles].
Lizzy: Then where did you live when you first got to the US?
Jesus: Los Angeles.
Lizzy: Okay. What part of LA?
Jesus: By LAX, actually.
Jesus: It was super close. I could skate to the beach.
Lizzy: I love that part of LA.
Jesus: Yeah, it's really nice. Super beautiful, everything, the beaches. I would even skate from Manhattan all the way to Santa Monica.
Jesus: Yeah, I'd go back and forth and stuff, Palos Verdes.
Lizzy: So, you really got into that California skate culture?
Jesus: Yeah. With my friends, they knew how to skate, and I was like, “Whoa, that looks cool.” [Chuckles]. I want to do it.” So, I started skating. It's a good form of transportation too, can get anywhere with it. [Chuckles].
Lizzy: Do you remember what your first day of school was like in the US?
Jesus: Yeah. It was like, “I don't know what the hell is going on.” [Chuckles]. Literally, I just got in there and they were talking in English, and I was like, “Okay, I don't know what the hell you're saying.”
Lizzy: Yeah. You probably didn't know any English, right?
Jesus: No, I didn't. Exactly. I was just confused. I don't know what to do. Yeah. But I had a teacher that spoke Spanish. I remember she told me once, "I'm going to help you out for a little bit. Hablar español e inglés." I was like, “Oh, that's cool.” But I remember one day, I think she got frustrated or something, and she's like, "I'm not going to talk to you in Spanish anymore. This is the last day I'm talking to you in Spanish. That's it."
Lizzy: Oh, wow. Was that scary, to have her Spanish taken away?
Jesus: I was just like, “Damn. I don't know what I'm going to do now.” So, I just had to learn English, and I did.
Lizzy: Do you think that that helped you learn more or made it worse?
Jesus: I think it did, I think it did help me, because if she would've just been speaking Spanish, I would've just continued, so I wouldn't have learned as much.
Lizzy: Yeah, then you were forced to speak English?
Jesus: Yeah, it was practical, you have to do it. So, I was like, “All right,” so I did it.
Lizzy: So, do you have any memories of what the other kids were like? How did the other kids treat you when you arrived?
Jesus: When I barely got there, in school, I was just a loner. I talked to nobody because I didn't know how to talk to anybody. [Chuckles]. So, I was just a loner. Then I had some neighbors that kind of knew Spanish, so I would hang out with them. It's all right. I didn't get no bullying or nothing.
Lizzy: Then, what about high school? What was high school like?
Jesus: It was interesting. It was really fun. [Laughs]. I had a bunch of friends. I had all kinds of friends. I had the rocker friends, the emo friends, the gang bangers, everybody like that.
Lizzy: Were there a lot of gangs at your school or in your neighborhood?
Jesus: I think my school mostly. My neighborhood, I didn't really see it because it was suburbs—it was sort of the suburbs. It was like, this side is all calm, and then from the other side, passing Lennox and stuff, that's where all the gangs were at. I got saved from that.
Lizzy: Was it something that any of your friends ever got involved with?
Jesus: Yeah, like I said, I had friends from everybody. I didn't discriminate. Everybody, whoever was cool to me, I was going to be cool with. So, I had all kinds of preppy friends. I had all kinds of friends. I had friends that were in gangs, but that didn't make me want to go in there and get involved in all that.
Lizzy: Did they ever try to get you to join?
Jesus: Yeah, they were like, “You want to join this, you want to join my gang?” I was like, “No, I don't want to.” [Chuckles].
Lizzy: Why didn't you want to?
Jesus: Because I honestly thought it was stupid. Fuck, you guys are killing each other for some dumb shit. I didn't want to be part of that. [Chuckles].
Lizzy: Did any of your friends talk about why they did want to join?
Jesus: I guess to get support or whatever from their other homies. I think it was mostly peer pressure for them. That's why they got involved. But for me, I was just like, “Man, I don't want to be part of that.” Stayed away from that.
Lizzy: Then, let's skip ahead a little bit. If you could tell me about what led to you leaving the US, coming back to Mexico. How old were you?
Jesus: I was twenty-three, about to be twenty-four.
Lizzy: How old are you now?
Lizzy: Okay, so a few years ago.
Lizzy: What happened?
Jesus: Well, I was getting in trouble with the law, not really because I wanted to, but because I didn't have papers. I bought a car and stuff, and I would drive, and they would pull me over, and I wouldn't have a driver's license or insurance or none of that. So, I'd get a ticket, they'd get my car taken away, stuff like that.
Lizzy: So different things related to driving?
Jesus: Yeah, it was mostly driving. They would pull me over a lot for that. Sometimes they'll let me go. I'd be like, “That's really cool,” because I would just use the car to go to work and come back. I would even be dressed and everything and tell them, "I'm just getting off work, just trying to get home. I ain't doing nothing bad," and they'd be like, "All right, we'll let you go this one time," or whatever.
Lizzy: So sometimes they let you go, but sometimes it was a bigger deal?
Jesus: Yeah, sometimes it'd be like, “No, can't do it.” I was like, “Whatever. Give me my fine and take my car away.” Then all those tickets, and all that with the law, when the DREAM Act came out, I wasn't able to apply because of that, because I had a criminal record.
Lizzy: Criminal record, but just based on traffic violations?
Jesus: Traffic violations, mostly.
Lizzy: So, you did look into applying for DACA?
Jesus: Yeah, but I wasn't able to. I was like, “I can't even do that so ...”
Lizzy: That's really frustrating.
Jesus: Yeah. Then I didn't see a future for myself over there because of all of that, and I didn't have paperwork. I did have a good job; I was getting paid good. But even that was unsure because I was kind of not doing it legally. [Chuckles]. So, everything, my life was unsure at that point. I had my own house, I was paying rent, all of that. Even so, I didn't see a future, because I was like, “When am I going to get a house by myself, all this mortgage and loans and debt? I don't have paperwork. I don't have a secure job and all that shit. I'm not going to make it here. Even if I wanted to, it's going to be super hard. It's going to be double the time and I have to pay lawyers, whatever.” So, I was like, “I'll head over to Mexico.” Plus, I have land here.
Lizzy: You have your own land, or your family's land?
Jesus: Yeah, my parents' inheritance.
Lizzy: Where's the land?
Jesus: It's some town over there by the hills. It's really nice, actually, I went to go scope it out to build. You can see the whole city and everything. It's in the hills and stuff.
Lizzy: But you don't live there now?
Jesus: I'm building.
Lizzy: So, you're building a house?
Jesus: I have two lands. One at the bottom, and then there's one all the way at the top of the hill. At the bottom one, I'm already building. I'm going to build some apartments and whatnot. Then that is already in process, and I'm living there. Then I'm going to build another house on the top. So, it's much easier. Right here, I already have a house, I already have land where I can build a house.
Lizzy: So, are you glad you came back?
Jesus: Well, it's still strenuous living here, because they don't pay you that good. I got this job right here which is bilingual, Teletech.
Lizzy: Yeah, Teletech.
Jesus: Yeah, so they're paying all right. Seven thousand every two weeks. Here in Mexico, it's good, because even teachers don't even get paid like that.
Lizzy: Yeah. Do you like working there?
Jesus: It's all right. I have to deal with everybody in the States, their dish. “That's not my box!”
Lizzy: Do you get angry customers?
Jesus: Yeah. [Chuckles]. A lot of angry customers.
Lizzy: Is it stressful?
Jesus: It gets stressful because I have to do ten hour shifts, so I have to be there sitting down all day on the phone. That's what stresses me out the most. But talking to the people is nice. Sometimes I get people that are super nice, and I start talking to them. We end up talking about beef stew or deer stew or random stuff.
Lizzy: How does the conversation turn to beef stew? [Lizzy laughs]
Jesus: There's, really, like deer stew, because I was talking to this hunter, and—where was he from? I think he was from Arkansas or something. We were talking about his dish, and then out of nowhere, we just started talking about life. He's like, "You ever tried deer stew?" I was like, "No." He's like, "It's the best." [Chuckles]. I don't know, just random stuff, just started talking.
Lizzy: Do you like getting to talk to people back in the US, or does it make you miss it?
Jesus: It makes me miss it somewhat because it was really nice. Life over there is super nice. You can't compare to living here. Everything's fucked up over here unfortunately. [Laughs]. It's a super nice country. Everything is beautiful, but everything is corrupt, and cops are assholes, people sometimes are assholes. There's a lot of drugs, a lot of violence.
Lizzy: Have any cartels or drugs tried to approach you, or have you had any experiences with them since you've been back?
Jesus: The thing about the cartels is they're not really here in the city. They're mostly more south or more up north, because right here is where it's more controlled actually. That's what I'm learning. Right here in the city, it's mostly controlled, so the cartels don't come in here that much. Or if they do, it's low key. You don't really know about them.
Lizzy: So that's not something you've had to deal with?
Jesus: Nah. I had to deal with the casual guy that doesn't have nothing else to do but rob, steal.
Lizzy: Have you gotten robbed?
Jesus: They tried, but they didn't succeed. [Laughs].
Lizzy: Good job.
Lizzy: What's been the hardest part about being back in Mexico the past few years?
Jesus: Mostly, I guess, getting used to the lifestyle.
Lizzy: In what ways is the lifestyle different here from the US?
Jesus: Well, what I miss the most is the food. It's super multicultural over there, you can get all kinds of food from every single place in the world practically. You get Asian, you get Arab, anything you want, you can get it, and everything tastes good. Right here, it's all the same food. And it’s like, “Ugh.”
Lizzy: What food do you miss the most?
Jesus: What I would cook. [Laughs]. Yeah, because you would have all the ingredients at the palm of your hands. Here, you can't even get pepper. They only get crushed or in little balls.
Lizzy: So, it's harder to find the stuff you need for cooking?
Jesus: Yeah. It's just all the same stuff. Chicken. They don't even have different kinds of cuts of meats, stuff like that. Everything's super expensive.
Lizzy: More expensive to buy at the markets here?
Jesus: Yeah. For something I would want to eat, I would have to pay at least a thousand, two thousand pesos. It's a lot because here I have to pay a bunch of other shit.
Lizzy: I'm wondering, it sounds like the majority of your life was in the US?
Lizzy: And I've heard some people say that they don't really feel like they're from here, they don't really feel like they're from there either. Do you feel like that at all, or do you feel more Mexican or more American?
Jesus: I feel more like a human being from Earth. [Chuckles]. I'm not really even from any country in particular. I could be Japanese for all I know. It's just culture. It depends on what culture. But I like Mexican culture, it's super nice. Everybody says “Hello,” “Good morning,” “Good afternoon,” when you come out of the house. That's really nice. Over there in the States, I wouldn't see that. So, there's big differences, there's differences in lifestyles. They both have their good and their bad. Just human, you know?
Lizzy: I love that, I love that you said that. We're all humans. Yeah. Why do we need to divide it?
Jesus: Yeah, I always thought about that. There shouldn't be a division in the world. Everybody can learn from everybody else. Like you're doing now, you can learn from me as I can learn from you. What's the difference? It's just the barriers we place on each other.
Lizzy: Yeah. What do you wish that people in the US could learn from people who've been in your situation, migrants from Mexico?
Jesus: Well, take the good from everything, to learn from everything you're doing and try to do the best for yourself, instead of trying to live for “Oh, this guy's telling me to do this. I'm going to have to do this.” No, it's none of that. You have to do things that you want, that you love, for your own self. Then that way, once you start loving yourself and the things you do, then you can go ahead and do things for other people, help someone without having to ask for anything in return. Just doing it because you like it.
Lizzy: Yeah, all of us helping each other out.
Jesus: I mean, it's a dream, but ... [Chuckles].
Lizzy: But it's a good dream. What about here in Mexico? Is there something that you wish people understood about migrants like you that have lived in the US and have come back to Mexico?
Jesus: Well, to think things differently. To have a different approach on things because over there, it's more liberal in the States. They reserve some things, but if you ask them for help, they might be more willing to help you than here, because everybody here is super sketchy: "I don't know if you're going to rob me, I don't know if you're going to do this.” If I go out and I ask somebody, "Can I borrow five bucks just to get home?" They're not going to want to do it because they think I'm just going to go and get high or whatever. A lot of people judge me, even here. They think I'm bad or something. I don't know why. Last time I got kicked out of a store, I went to go buy bread and whatever. I was in the store, and this guy got super crazy. He's like, "No, you're going to rob me." He pulled out a knife and he's like, "You're going to rob me, you're going to rob me." I was like, "What the hell, dude? I'm just trying to buy bread." [Chuckles].
Lizzy: What is it that you think ... Because I, looking at you, you don't look like a dangerous person to me.
Jesus: I was even dressed more nice than now. I had on a dress shirt and pants. I had just came from an interview, and they—
Lizzy: So why do you think that people…?
Jesus: I don't know. I think it's just their lives. They've probably been robbed too many times, or they just don't trust nobody. It's hard to trust people around here.
Lizzy: Do people treat you differently, or have you ever been treated differently because you speak English, or because you've spent so much time in the States?
Jesus: Not really. The people I do tell, they're just interested in like, “Oh, how was it? What can you teach me? You want to teach me how to speak English?”
Lizzy: That's great.
Jesus: I have taught some people how to speak English.
Lizzy: That's really cool. Was your Spanish still good when you returned here, or had you lost some of it?
Jesus: It's the basic because I don't really know how to write it.
Lizzy: Yeah, because you learned to write in school writing in English.
Jesus: Yeah. So, I don't know how to pronounce it sometimes, I don't know a few words. You could be telling me something, I don't even know what the hell you're talking about. Yeah. It's different. [Chuckle].
Lizzy: Yeah. So, you talked a little bit about your land and building apartments. I guess to finish up and end on a positive note too, what are your plans for your future here? Or what are your biggest hopes and dreams for yourself in Mexico?
Jesus: It would be that. Just finishing the building, the apartments, and my house. Then I want to travel. I want to leave. I want to go and just visit a lot of places.
Lizzy: Where do you want to visit?
Jesus: Well, I want to visit here in Mexico first because I heard there's a lot of nice beaches and a lot of super nice places to go to. The forest and pyramids and stuff. I've been to a few, but I want to go to a lot more. Then after that, I want to go to Canada, so I could study. I want to be a pilot.
Lizzy: Cool. So, you want to go to school for that in Canada?
Jesus: Yeah, because out here, it's super expensive. It's like two million pesos.
Lizzy: Oh, wow.
Jesus: Yeah. I don't think I can make it. [Chuckles].
Lizzy: Is that something you're planning on doing soon, or when do you think you'll try to do that?
Jesus: Well, it has to be soon, because I'm getting older. [Both laugh].
Lizzy: Is there an age limit on being a pilot?
Jesus: Probably, but I want to be more like a personal pilot, so I could have my own plane and fly wherever I want.
Lizzy: Yeah, not so much flying the big commercial airline?
Jesus: That would be nice, too. Boeing and stuff. That'd be super dope. But it would be more for private, a private thing. I could just have my plane and fly wherever. After that, I'm going to go to Greece.
Lizzy: I would love to go to Greece.
Jesus: Yeah, Greece sounds super nice.
Lizzy: It looks beautiful.
Jesus: Yeah. All the stories, too. The gods and stuff.
Jesus: It's really interesting.
Lizzy: It seems like a fascinating culture.
Jesus: Yeah, it is. Go over there, go to Italy, I don't know. Just visit the world, probably.
Lizzy: Yeah. I can tell that you're someone who’d be interested in meeting people from anywhere in the world. You're a human.
Jesus: Actually, I had a lot of friends that were from the rest of the world. I had Arab friends, and Italians, and like even from Bulgaria, I had an ex-girlfriend that was from Bulgaria. A Japanese ex-girlfriend. It was really nice.
Lizzy: This is in California?
Jesus: Yeah, in California, just meeting people from different parts of the world.
Lizzy: Here in Mexico, do you get to meet people from different parts of the world?
Jesus: Not really. It's really hard to find people here from other places. Mostly Mexicans. [Chuckles]. Last summer, I met a German out of nowhere, right there by my house. It was really cool.
Lizzy: But not as much?
Jesus: Yeah, not as much.
Lizzy: Well, as we start finishing up, is there anything that you feel like you want to share that you haven't gotten to talk about yet? Anything that you want people to understand about you or your experience?
Jesus: That's a really good question. Well, for me, it was mostly I didn't even know I was going over there, so everything was just interesting. [Chuckles] Then once I got there, life was difficult for me being an immigrant, especially because I did it illegally. If I had done it legally, I think it would've been much easier, and I would've probably done a lot better, had a lot of things to look forward to and stuff. But I guess, just open your mind. Just to be open to people, not judge a book by its cover. If you get to know them, you might know that they have other things that are better. Do you want to better yourself, better the world, better everybody? It's hard. It's hard when you don't have access to things. A lot of people need support. A lot of people have good ideas, good intentions. They just need that support.
Lizzy: Is there anything you think the US could be doing a better job at, or the government in the US could be doing a better job providing that support?
Jesus: The thing about government is, we're never going to be able to control it. It's only 1% that controls that system. So, trying to change the government is going to be the hardest thing to do. I'm guessing it's more like changing yourselves, changing the people, because the people are the majority of the people that live in the United States. So maybe just changing off from that racism and that stereotypes and all that, and going a different way, taking a different look at life where we're just humans.
Lizzy: So, try to change people's attitudes?
Jesus: Yeah. We should all just have a chance to do something. Maybe that will make the best out of everybody.
Lizzy: I love that. I think, yeah, I agree with you that what's more important than anything else is we all try to understand each other, and see beneath the surface.
Jesus: Yeah, because I mean, what I noticed in the States was you don't even know your neighbor at times. You don't even know the people that live two houses down. So how are you supposed to open up to somebody when you don't even know the person that lives next to you? Here, people know each other, so that forms a sense of community, I guess. You know your neighbors and everything. But over there, everybody is just in their own world. Everybody's stuck in their own thing, looking out for their own lives. You have to work for yourself. You've got to take care of yourself, and everything's more independent. But if you took a chance to get to know your neighbor and your other neighbor, they might be able to help you on things you might need help on. I think that's where you should start, just by getting to know your neighbor, getting to know the whole block and getting know the whole street, and then everybody just knows everybody, and it makes it safer.
Lizzy: Do you think that's something that we in the US could learn from Mexico, getting to know your neighbors?
Jesus: Yeah. Here, too, it has its own difficulties, because you might know your neighbor, but even though you're still kind of secluded. It might just be a “Hi,” and you know their name, but that's it. You don't really take a chance to talk to them sometimes. That's what the whole world needs, that's how you start getting that unification of the people. Start getting to know everybody. But it's hard, because there's billions and billions of people that live here, so you might never know everybody. But at least if you know seven people, seven people know another seven people. There's a study about the seven people that you know, and I think that's a really good study, and that's something that should be applied. Getting to know everybody you can.
Jesus: The government, that's why it secludes you. It starts from there. The government secludes itself, from all the people. Nobody knows what everybody wants. There might be people that want evil and then you don't even know if it's right next door to you, or good. People that could be presidents and they live next to you, they have good ideas, good morale, stuff like that.
Lizzy: So, we need to start with each one of us individually making an effort to get to know the people around us?
Jesus: Yeah, just learning. Learning everything you can from everybody because you never know when an idea might come out of that, something good, something positive.
Lizzy: Yeah. Even if they speak a different language?
Jesus: Yeah. Even if they're on the whole other side of the world. [Chuckles]. This could happen. It's just hard. It's hard changing people. When I was studying sociology here—I went to university, but I didn't really like it, because they weren't going to pay me that much. Honestly, I was looking into the pay. But I did learn a few things about how the world works. It all starts from a house, how your parents teach you, and then how the outside teaches you, and everything gets mixed together. So, I think that's another thing. You've got to change the education system, because right now, the education system is just teaching you to be a worker.
Lizzy: In the US or in Mexico?
Jesus: Anywhere in the world. Every single education system. I think the Netherlands have something that's actually good. But every single system teaches you just to be obedient, to be the best one, and then to stay there for eight hours to take all that information in and then just leave, whatever. But it doesn't really teach how you have to be yourself, and how to be creative, and how to take the best out of yourself. It's just teaching you how to be compliant and stuff. I think that needs to change. You've got to get the best out of people, the creative side, because that's where all the good things happen.
Lizzy: Yeah, I like that. That is where the good things happen.
Jesus: That's where everything we see was created, from people's creativity. Somebody thought, oh, we should make a chair. Then it's like, there's a chair. Somebody said we should make lamps, whatever, a light. Benjamin Franklin, “How could I conduct that electricity into a light bulb?” He did it, just from thinking about it and being creative. Everybody was just being creative when they thought of things.
Lizzy: Yeah, that's so true. What do you like to use your creative side for?
Jesus: Well, I like art. I like a lot of art. I like painting and creating things. I wanted to be an engineer because I think it would be really good, good help to society, make things a lot easier and better, more creative. The transportation system here sucks. It's good, because you can get it anywhere at any time, but it's contaminating the whole city. So, I gotta make some other things change. I think I would be able to help in that kind of sense, if I was to know all the engineering part of it.
Lizzy: So why did you decide against going down that path?
Jesus: School. Usually school's what brings me down because I know how it is. They're just going to teach me what they want me to know, not what I want to know.
Jesus: [Chuckles]. If the school taught me, if I told them, "Teach me this, teach me all this," and the way I want to learn it, it'd be hands-on. I don't want to be reading books and books and books on theories and stuff, I want to just do it because that's where you learn the most, when you feel it, when you do things. When you go ahead and touch it, you get the sense of it. That's where you learn.
Jesus: Instead of just learning from books and getting bored and having class and study plans and all this. That just makes your mind tired. That takes away the creativity. Being right there and thinking about things and opening up your creative side, you'll be like, "Oh, how about if we do this? Make transportation with sunlight," sun powered, electric, whatever. Electricity too could have been free for a long time, but the Tesla things ... Free current. It could be free, but it's just a system that we live in where they want to make money off of you. Even in schools, they just want to make money off of you, not even to learn anymore. That's what sucks. That's what brings me down. I'm like, “Fuck. Take five years of this school just to get a diploma paper that says that I know things, when I could know things without having that paper.”
Lizzy: That's what makes you not want to go to school anymore?
Jesus: Yeah. It's just tiring. I don't think it's going to take the best out of me. I want something or someone that could help me take the best out of myself, take the creative side, take all this, take all that.
Lizzy: I think that there is still a lot of good that you can do with your creative side even if you don't have that degree.
Jesus: Yeah. You know how home studies work, where your parents teach you at home? That's what I'm trying to get more involved with, teaching myself, because I can do it. I could teach my own damn self things. I could pick up a book and read it and just learn. Why do I have to go to school, why do I have to do all this?
Lizzy: Yeah. What would you want to teach yourself at home?
Jesus: Oh, what I am teaching myself is different languages.
Lizzy: What languages?
Jesus: A little bit of French and Italian and Japanese, but just starting off.
Lizzy: That's so cool.
Jesus: I learned some over there in the States too, because in high school, I took French.
Lizzy: Yeah. Sometimes you know yourself, you know how your mind works, and sometimes you can be a better teacher to yourself than someone else could be.
Jesus: Yeah, exactly. It also helps having other people, because there's people that already have that knowledge, and they could make it easier for you to learn it. So that's why it would be good to have somebody like a teacher that could help you get the best out of you, and learn, and teach you and stuff. Learning from yourself is more like taking the time to know yourself and how to teach yourself, which is really hard too, because being your own teacher is one of the hardest things. [Chuckles]. But it's not difficult, you could do it. I could do it. It's just seeking knowledge, philosophy.
Lizzy: Do you like philosophy?
Jesus: Yeah. It's one of the best subjects.
Lizzy: What kind of philosophy do you like to read about or learn about?
Jesus: All kinds. Just wisdom. Philosophy is the love of wisdom. That's what it actually means. [Laughs].
Lizzy: Yeah, literally.
Jesus: So, it's just that. Just learning from anything and everything. Asking the big question, “Why? Why does that work how it works? Why do they do the things they do? Why do I want to learn things?” Just because I love knowledge. It's nice knowing things. [Laughs].
Lizzy: And it's something you can do for your whole life.
Jesus: Exactly. You can always be a teacher and a student your whole life. That's one of the big things about philosophy. You're never going to know enough to say that you know everything. There's always something else that you don't know. It's just that search that intrigues me. I just want to keep knowing things and how everything works, what I can do. Learn what I'm capable of. That's really nice. That's something really captivating, to be learning.
Lizzy: Yeah, I agree. I think that is beautiful. I love that.
Jesus: Learning everything. Everything you can while you can.
Lizzy: While you can, yeah. While we're here.
Jesus: Exactly. Even more, teaching what you learn. I think that's what we're here for, and that's the main purpose of humans, just to learn and to teach.
Lizzy: To get that knowledge and pass it on to others.
Jesus: Exactly. They could use it differently. Your knowledge could be used for something else.
Jesus: You could make a chain of knowledge, just everybody knowing things, and they express it differently because of their ideals and their way of being. They could make it something else, something more beautiful than what it already is.
Lizzy: Yeah, and then it can evolve.
Lizzy: And change.
Jesus: Evolve, that's evolution. We’re part of it, we're on it right now. Everybody's evolving.
Lizzy: You really have a philosopher's mindset. [Jesus chuckles]. I like it.
Jesus: Yeah, I always liked knowledge. I think that's why I always separated myself from gangs and stuff like that because their knowledge was just singular. The streets, do this, do that. People giving you orders without a point. Like, “Why do you do that?” That's what I would always ask myself on everything. Everything that was presented to me, I would always ask the question, “Why? Why are you doing it?” If I didn't like the answer, I don't have to do it. [Laughs]. I don't like that. So, I think that's it, just finding the answers to what you want to know and passing them on, on your knowledge.
Lizzy: Yeah, beautiful. [Jesus chuckles] The philosophy of Jesus.
Lizzy: Any last things that you want to say?
Jesus: Oh, there's plenty of things that I would like to say, but I don't know, I think it's taking too much of your time. I don't know.
Lizzy: No, it's okay.
Jesus: Yeah? There is a lot of things wrong and we need change, drastic change. Needs a lot of help, a lot of people. We're going to a kind of world where it's really going to shit [Chuckles] because of that, because of the separation of the world and knowledge. Nobody wants you to know what they know. It's my knowledge. Everybody's too greedy. Greed and all that is causing a lot of harm. That needs to change. People's mindsets need to change. They've got to know how the government works. There's a law in the States where you can stand up to your government. It's the Second Amendment. The whole town, the whole state, they could go against what the government is saying and take it down if it’s too much tyranny. But nobody does it, because nobody knows what their laws are. They don't know what they can do as a town, as a people, as a whole. So, just that, increment knowledge, know about things that you can do to make a change. Right now, with Trump, a lot of people don't like him. They need to change him, [Chuckles] because I don't think his policies and all that is too good.
Jesus: He didn't even study to be a president. Money. Money talked with him, made him president or whatever. That's the kinds of things they need to change. How's the people going to change if the leader isn't somebody that's capable of change? Or anything? He's just a one-minded, one-sided mind.
Lizzy: Yeah. It's so true.
Jesus: If you want the people to change, if the people follow the government, the government needs to change. Right here, too. Right here, the government's corrupt too. Everybody's corrupt. They see money, they just want that. They don't want the good for their people anymore, just the good for themselves.
Lizzy: How do we change that?
Jesus: Changing a government, the thing that has been established for over decades, is like changing religion. [Laughs]. It's one of the hardest things to do. In religion, all the religions teach the same thing. Love one another, peace. So why can't all of them be just one religion? But, no. It's just separation. It's just changing separation, having to unify people when everybody's already separated, they've been like that for decades, takes a lot of people. I think the solution to that would be just unifying the country, and making that one goal, one human goal. The one goal that every human could have, and everybody could have access to food and shelter and stuff, but based on wanting the people to grow, want their knowledge to grow, because more people put their minds on one thing. It's easier for it to be done, it's proven. You get five people to flip a car over, they'll do it. If one person tries, they're never going to do it. So just changing everybody's mindsets and having the opportunity for everybody to live correctly, I think that would make a better world. It would help everybody use their minds for other things than just work. They could use it for their creative sides where they could start creating things that could help better mankind as a whole. Like free energy. Water is infinite—not really, because we're killing it, you know? [Laughs].
Jesus: And food, food could be infinite too. You go to a supermarket, you know how many apples there are? Nobody's going to buy all those apples. They're going to go bad within the week, so why can't you just get them out, or why can't people just have their own little gardens where they could grow their things? But everybody's just too lazy or just too busy doing other things, like working, finishing, following the system. That's what needs to change. Change the system.
Lizzy: Change the system.
Jesus: And you change the world. It's by unifying everybody. I think everybody would be happy and everybody would be good.